GuitarGearHeads
By John Seetoo (published 7/17/2011) |
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Carl Verheyen’s career is a testament to how the combination of talent, hard work, perseverance, and being a good team player can propel one to the summit of his or her personal mountaintop of achievements. As a session guitarist, he has appeared on countless film (Star Trek, Land of the Lost, Gladiator, Cars, Cars 2) and television soundtracks, including Seinfeld, Cheers, Scrubs, Frasier. He also has performed and/or recorded with Christina Aguilera, the Bee Gees, Cher, Leann Rimes, Little Richard, and John Fogerty, among others. As a solo artist and bandleader, he has had several albums and tours, and his CD release, “Trading 8s” featured duets with a number of Carl’s friends and peers, including Robben Ford and Joe Bonamassa. A gear fanatic, whose chameleonlike ability to give producers any sounds they want is a result of intensive study into what guitar and amp combinations will yield specific guitar tones, Carl has recently debuted some signature gear. If that wasn't the definition of a “full plate”, Carl also has found time from touring, recording, and teaching to start writing a column this year for Guitar Player magazine.
Since 1985, he has held the lead guitarist chair for Supertramp, and the incredibly gracious Carl Verheyen squeezed in the time to answer these questions from GuitarGearHeads.com in this exclusive interview while on the road with Supertramp in France.
John: Congratulations on your new LsL CV Special, which becomes available in July, 2011. Since it’s based on your favorite ‘61 Fender Strat, it’s got a lot of vintage spec elements, like the 7.25” fretboard radius, and some subtle mods, like the bridge pickup tone control. Can you tell us a bit about how the LsL CV Special came into being, and, given your widely diverse musical experiences, what attributes of the CV Special guitar gives a player an edge over owning and using a more conventionally manufactured guitar?
Carl: I’ve been a big fan of vintage instruments over the years, but I’m always worried about taking some of these valuable pieces on the road. Not only do I worry about the investment side of the equation, but I also want to be making records with these guitars for many years to come. LsL was the first company I’ve come across that actually listened to my requests and wasn’t only interested in making $5,000.00 reproductions of my favorite guitars. I believe the pricing is right for the value, it’s a small factory where each neck is shaped by hand and the paint, fretwork, electronics and setup are all top notch. As for the “edge,” it’s great to play an instrument you never have to fight to get great tone! I hate to say it, but a lot of my favorite players sounded a lot better before they got a signature guitar! I don’t want to be one of those guys, so I’m being very particular about each and every decision, every part down to the screws. Everything your tweak effects tone, playability, feel, string tension and ultimately your ability to perform and feel at home on the guitar.
John: Also - why the 7.25” radius? Your website has a whole article by you about setting up your guitars. Since you hate buzz and like to bend under strings, it makes sense that you have your action a bit higher, but doesn’t the curve make other techniques harder to perform vs. a flatter fingerboard on your Gibsons, Voxes, Reverends, or other brands?
Carl: I have a hard time remembering all the various numbers and values, but this guitar feels like it has a fairly flat neck. It feels like butter! My ’58 Strat is a lot curvier, the ’61 feels like home base to me. My problem is that after three minutes on a guitar I learn to adapt to the neck, tension, string spacing and all the other little variables a new instrument presents. So it’s hard to pin down what I really like. There is no technique that feels more difficult here, otherwise I’d change it because one of the biggest reasons for making this instrument was to have something I didn’t need to fight.
John: Your Dean Markley “Balanced Bridge” signature strings are specifically designed for use with the Strat and the whammy bar. Do you use the same set for your other guitars, or do the gauges and other elements change due to scale length, pickups, etc.? How do the Dean Markleys differ from your previous Thomastik-Infeld signature strings?
Carl: For non-trem bridges, like Teles and hard tail Strats that I’m doing a lot of bending on, this gauge works great. I even have them on a few of my Gibsons, although a general rule for me is to use a standard .010 gauge set on the ES-335, Flying V and SG guitars. With Dean Markley and before that, Thomastik-Infeld, my goal was to create a string gauge that would make the floating bridge on a Strat have the same tensile feel of a .010 gauge set on a Gibson. With my set up you’re pulling against springs so the gauges need to adjust to feel similar. I also use my first finger a lot to bend the top two strings a whole step, so excessive tension is not what I’m after. I push strings around all day long, and it’s nice to keep a little skin on there in the end!
The Thomastik-Infeld strings are great; they’re just so hard to find in the USA. The Dean Markleys are a lot more available, you can get them anywhere. Their new Helix brand that I incorporated into my design has an advantage in that the windings are much close together. They call it a “hyper-elliptical wind” which apparently makes for a smoother string for sliding around as well as smaller “valleys” between windings so they trap less dirt and last longer.
John: You are one of a small number of guitarists who have both signature electric and acoustic models. You chose Avalon and designed an unusual double cutaway signature jumbo, the only signature model that Avalon builds. As you have owned a wide range of Guilds, Taylors, a Mark Angus, and other acoustics, how did the arrangement with Avalon come about, and do you ever play it at gigs, or only in the studio?
Carl: Avalon is in Northern Ireland and I met those guys while on tour in Belfast some years back. I asked them to make me a stage model that could be played in a loud, rock band and not feed back, and the double cutaway was suggested as a design concept to reduce that bass woof you get though the monitors. So it is the model I currently use on stage both in Europe and in the USA. Unfortunately Avalon has had some trouble in the past; the shrinking US dollar against the British Pound has not helped their sales. I wish them all the best
For studio work I have a number of vintage Gibsons and Martins, including a 1959 D-18 for dreadnaught duty. I have a 1938 Gibson L-00 for that Robert Johnson small body tone and a ’51 Gibson J-50 for that self-compressing strumming sound when I need to “pave” some rhythm acoustic in a track and double it. Tonight I’ll be using my Taylor 855-12-string on stage with Supertramp in Rouen, France. It’s a very reliable 12, and I run it through an acoustic guitar rig that includes a Raven pre-amp, a dbx 160-X rack mount compressor and a Lexicon reverb unit. The compressor evens out all the strumming and makes your finger picking sound better, too.
John: Education and information are obviously very important to you. Even though you log prodigious amounts of time both in the studio and on stage, you still cram plenty of workshop appearances, DVD instructional releases, and recently started writing a column for Guitar Player magazine. Where do you find the time, and what motivates you to be so open with your trade secrets, vs. a lot of other players who jealously guard their equipment and technique tricks of the trade?
Carl: I believe very strongly in passing it down to the next generation. Otherwise we’ll end up with a generation of “typers,” people who make music exclusively on their computers. There is a wonderful community of guitar players out there; I enjoy tapping into it when I’m traveling. My band played in Lithuania last year and we were invited to a Tuesday night meeting of all the guitar players in Vilnius, the capital city. My first reaction was: Vilnius has guitar players? But when I met these guys they knew all about me and we discussed normal stuff like how you separate the two parts in “Foxy Lady” and what kind of wah wah sounds best with distortion. Give it all away! That’s what Joe Diorio told me many years ago when I took some private lessons with him in the late 70’s. It all comes back to you in the end, so pass it on!
John: You are presently on tour with Supertramp in France, and you maintain a successful solo and session work career. In past interviews, you have likened studio work to being a craftsman and your solo work as your artistic outlet. In one interview, you created a theremin like sound for the Land of the Lost movie soundtrack - an example of the artistic creativity from you during a session.. What kind of significantly different artistic choices would you have made in examples of your more notable film, record or TV session work, if you had had the freedom to make the production decisions, and why?
Carl: Normally, film and TV work is a lot less creative than record work because you’re hired to read a composer’s score. You make creative sonic choices any time you can, as in guitar, amp and effects, but as for the musical choices, those are usually written out. But how you execute those notes is a subtle form of creativity in an otherwise legit situation. My goal in those orchestral dates, where the guitar has a melody or an important line, is to sound like I’ve been playing that part for 20 years. I get it under my hands with all the appropriate bends slides and articulation. Only then do I sound like I own it.
There is another aspect of creativity that comes with experience and confidence in the studio. Many composers are NOT guitarists and don’t know the instrument's limitations or, contrarily, its idiosyncrasies. So I often suggest ideas that will get the music across more naturally. I have no problem saying, “I can do what you wrote here, but if I change this and that it will work better. Here’s what a guitar player would do.” Nine times out of ten they like it better because it makes them sound better. In those situations you have to realize that you’re the expert in the room on all things guitar!
But to answer your question, film music is usually under dialog or secondary to the action on the screen, so I always trust the composer. It’s recording records where I have a much stronger musical opinion based on personal tastes. I remember playing a slide solo on an important record a few years back and working with the producer for about two hours to get it perfectly doubled, then harmonized. I was really proud of it and it truly rocked. The artist showed up, and in a very condescending English accent said, “That sounds like the bloody Saber Dance.” Nothing I could do about it, it just hit him the wrong way. And since my job was to see his musical vision to its ultimate perfection, I had to redo it with something a lot tamer.
John: In a 1996 issue ofGuitar Shop, you gave an in-depth photo tour of your gear at the time, and you described your A/B setup. Your clean rig then was a pair of Vox AC-30s, and you had some Marshall plexis for distortion. You also had a small recording rack that had a Mesa/Boogie preamp and a Lexicon LXP-1. Stompboxes of that era included a ProCo Rat, Ibanez TS-9, MXR DynaComp, Phase 90 and VooDoo Labs Proctavia and Tremolo. You now use a lot more Fender amps, plus the Dr. Z, although you’ve kept the Vox, and your new pedals include a Hermida Zendrive and a Fuchs. Are your new choices based upon “Holy Grail” type sounds that you were seeking, or did you retire some of the older units over reliability and wear & tear issues?
Carl: I’m proud to say I still own every piece of gear you just mentioned! My theory is: If it sounds good, don’t sell it. I own around 50 amps these days, stored in LA and a handful in Europe. I have at least 200 pedals on five pedal boards and in trunks of loose gear. It’s fun in the studio to hook different combinations of pedals, guitars and amps and experiment. I’ve changed things around since 1996 a few times, but for my artistic career the goal is always the same: It’s better to have 3 or 4 amazing tones than 99 mediocre ones. I long ago abandoned the “99 programmed presets rig” for the A/B system with awesome clean tones and a fat, saturated distortion sound for soloing. With Supertramp, I bump that up to a third signal path for power chords and distorted lines in unison with the bass. It’s nice to have a bone-dry power chord sound that’s different than your signature sound for the guitar solos. So that pedal board is an A/B/C system.
John: GGH is also interviewing Steve Trovato, a good friend of yours, with whom you have collaborated on a number of videos seen on YouTube. Do you have any other notable past duo collaborations of which you are fond of, (i.e, your 2009 CD, “Trading 8’s”) and are there any guitarists in particular with whom you would like to play and record with in the future? What do you look for in these kinds of collaborations, and do you plan complimentary gear choices in advance, or is it a more spontaneous kind of situation?
Carl: The guys on “Trading 8s” are all friends, so it was a pleasure to play with them. (Joe) Bonamassa and I played live in the studio, and it was take 4 all the way down that we used on the record. When we overdubbed Robben’s (Ford) solo I told him I played a Strat. He pulled out an ES-335 to compliment my tone, so I guess that was a spontaneous decision. The other guys on the album (Rick Vito, Albert Lee, Scott Henderson, Steve Morse) all played the signature instruments they’re known for. I’ve played with some pretty great players, like John Jorgenson, Greg Howe, Guthrie Govan, and Allan Holdsworth, who was on my first CD. I always learn something new from these situations, Steve Trovato included! He’s a wealth of information, a monster guitar player and a great hang.
John: In your new Guitar Playercolumn, you have cited having to come up with a last minute on the spot solo acoustic version of “Moon River” for The Academy Awards, and an orchestral recording session where you had to switch between (5) five different instruments in a single take. Apart from these two guitarists’ nightmare scenarios, what do you consider to be both your most unusual and most difficult session and gig demands so far?
Carl: Many years ago when I was first starting out in the studio, a composer named David McHugh called me for a session at the Universal Studios sound stage. It was a big orchestra date and he had a messenger deliver an exceptionally difficult part to me the day before so I could prepare it and be ready to be the principal soloist on it. After checking out the music, I wondered what the big deal was because it was simple. I learned it up-tempo, up the octave, in 3rds and 6ths and every way I could think of. But when I got to the studio it became obvious that they’d sent over the wrong piece! The terror that ensued when I attempted to sight-read the black page that was in front of me was something I’ll never forget. When 60 violin bows get into the ready position for their entrance in bar 21 and you blow bar 19 for the third time, it rattles you! Especially when they groan and grumble.
John: You have cited the importance of melodic lines in teaching about soloing, and you have mentioned that only about 30% of one’s playing, on average, is actual improvisation, with 70% being a collection of fallback licks and memorized parts. Les Paul’s criteria for individual playing was: “Fancy licks may be impressive to other musicians, but can your mother pick out your playing on the radio?” What Carl Verheyen recorded works contain playing examples that your mother would recognize as uniquely yours?
Carl: My Mom is a big fan and actually plays my stuff constantly in “heavy rotation” around her house and in the car. She even calls me when she’s recognized my sound or style on a TV show or a tune on the radio! But like all 79 year-olds, she tends to prefer the lyrical, pretty side of my music. Her favorites would be “Dusk” Parts 1 and 2 off the “Take One Step” CD and “Country Girl” from “Trading 8s”. My Dad is a fan too, and I have to thank both of my parents for their encouraging support throughout my life. Especially in the beginning when as a young man you’re trying to decide if you can make a go of this crazy business!
John: Although you currently use a wide range of Fenders, as well as Dr. Z, Vox, and in the past, Marshall and Mesa, you have steadfastly cited the Princeton Reverb as your baseline reference amp for all of your guitars, etc. What is it about the Princeton Reverb that prompted you to have so many of them, and why that amp vs., say, a Deluxe Reverb or AC15?
Carl: Somehow I ended up with 3 Blackface Princetons, I guess because I’ve never met one I didn’t like! I’m a huge fan of combo style amps with reverb, especially when playing alone, like practicing or solo guitar stuff. The Deluxe Reverb falls into that category, but the AC-15 has no ‘verb so I always need to hook up an old Fender tank or a reverb pedal, and that’s just one more thing in the signal path. The Princeton Reverb is simple and self-contained. But I have to admit I own a good example of all the other amps you mention here.
John: You are also going to be conducting a workshop this summer with Shadow Amps. Although you have plexis and vintage Fenders, are there new amp builders on your radar? What features are you looking for in a new amp?
Carl: The Shadow gives me that AC-30 sparkle and shimmering high end that I love to hear with a Stratocaster. Single coil pickups have such lovely highs and the Shadow delivers that plus a full mid range tone that really works for my clean tone. I use other amps for the distortion side of my rig, having years ago been asked by Allan Holdsworth, “How can you possibly use the same amps for your clean sound and your distortion sound?” I realized right then and there that an A/B amp rig was far better than Midi switching rack stuff, two channel amps or a clean / dirty rig using a pedal. My 4-amp live system evolved from that moment. Everything from pedals, effects, amps, speakers right down to the cables needed to be specific to the single tone I was after. I use certain cables for the distortion side of my rig and different ones for the clean.
John: Certainly, you have had plenty of gear pass through your hands over the years. What is your biggest sale or trade regret?
Carl: I borrowed a 1959 dot-neck ES-335 from my drummer’s brother back in ’68 /’69 when I was in a little band in Pasadena as a 15 year old. He offered to sell it to me for $300.00 and I said no thanks. That was an impossible amount of money for a kid, but what an investment it would have been!
John: Any items that you wish you never sold or traded, and wanted back in retrospect?
Carl: Alexander Dumble offered me one of his amps for next to nothing way back in 1989 and I bought a 1968 plexi 50 watt Marshall instead. I do love the old Marshall and I believe it sounds better with a Strat, but the Dumbles are out of control now, but I may get one yet!
John: Conversely, what is the best gear deal or find you ever made?
Carl: I got my ’61 Strat from a friend for $500.00. Hard to beat that one!
John: Is there any “big fish” that got away story?
Carl: Not too many! I actually still have most of the guitars I’ve ever owned!
John: Did you have any musical industry mentors or role models, as opposed to people whose music or guitar playing inspired you?
Carl: Tireless performers like McCartney and Joe Zawinul (until he passed away) are a big inspiration. I’ve learned a lot about musical integrity over the years from Rick Davies from Supertramp. He has such a high standard of excellence in his presentation of what he calls “the complete Supertramp experience.”
John: Whom would you say are your biggest musical or guitar influences in terms of your approaches towards recording, gigging, writing, and producing?
Carl: That list would be at least 25 or 30 players long if we had the space. So, narrowed down to a handful, it would be:
Recording: George Harrison, Jimmy Page, Jeff Tweedy
Gigging: Supertramp (the show must go on!)
Writing: Jimi Hendrix, Muddy Waters, Paul McCartney, Brian Wilson, Paul Simon, Elton John
Producing: Daniel Lanois, Todd Rundgren, Paul Fox, George Martin
John: Given that you are such a remarkably versatile guitar player, is there anyone of late whom you have heard or seen that made you stop and take notice because you couldn’t figure out how they were doing what they were doing, or came from such an unexpected musical perspective that their playing surprised you?
Carl: Years ago I gave up the technique of tapping, believing that it was dated and overused. But in the last few years I’ve played some shows with Guthrie Govan that have inspired me to re-examine the value of that technique as a musical tool to get intervals that don’t come easily on the guitar. Now if I could only find a way to maintain tone while tapping I’d be happy! Also, I’m always transcribing slide guitar licks to play without the slide, and people like Derek Trucks, Ry Cooder and Duane Allman are a constant source of inspiration for melodic and soulful lines.
John: Of all of the things that you have done in your career, what 3 recordings or accomplishments would you like to be best remembered for 50 years or more from now?
Carl: Tough question! I’m proud of keeping a band together for a few decades, employing musicians and crew and helping to generate work that feeds their families. As far as musical accomplishments, there’s an extended piece on the “Take One Step” CD called "Bells of April" that I’m really proud of. The new DVD called “The Road Divides” has a few high points like the jam at the end of "Slang Justice" and the title track. But I like to think I still have yet to produce the definitive Verheyen musical moment!
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Since 1985, he has held the lead guitarist chair for Supertramp, and the incredibly gracious Carl Verheyen squeezed in the time to answer these questions from GuitarGearHeads.com in this exclusive interview while on the road with Supertramp in France.
John: Congratulations on your new LsL CV Special, which becomes available in July, 2011. Since it’s based on your favorite ‘61 Fender Strat, it’s got a lot of vintage spec elements, like the 7.25” fretboard radius, and some subtle mods, like the bridge pickup tone control. Can you tell us a bit about how the LsL CV Special came into being, and, given your widely diverse musical experiences, what attributes of the CV Special guitar gives a player an edge over owning and using a more conventionally manufactured guitar?
Carl: I’ve been a big fan of vintage instruments over the years, but I’m always worried about taking some of these valuable pieces on the road. Not only do I worry about the investment side of the equation, but I also want to be making records with these guitars for many years to come. LsL was the first company I’ve come across that actually listened to my requests and wasn’t only interested in making $5,000.00 reproductions of my favorite guitars. I believe the pricing is right for the value, it’s a small factory where each neck is shaped by hand and the paint, fretwork, electronics and setup are all top notch. As for the “edge,” it’s great to play an instrument you never have to fight to get great tone! I hate to say it, but a lot of my favorite players sounded a lot better before they got a signature guitar! I don’t want to be one of those guys, so I’m being very particular about each and every decision, every part down to the screws. Everything your tweak effects tone, playability, feel, string tension and ultimately your ability to perform and feel at home on the guitar.
John: Also - why the 7.25” radius? Your website has a whole article by you about setting up your guitars. Since you hate buzz and like to bend under strings, it makes sense that you have your action a bit higher, but doesn’t the curve make other techniques harder to perform vs. a flatter fingerboard on your Gibsons, Voxes, Reverends, or other brands?
Carl: I have a hard time remembering all the various numbers and values, but this guitar feels like it has a fairly flat neck. It feels like butter! My ’58 Strat is a lot curvier, the ’61 feels like home base to me. My problem is that after three minutes on a guitar I learn to adapt to the neck, tension, string spacing and all the other little variables a new instrument presents. So it’s hard to pin down what I really like. There is no technique that feels more difficult here, otherwise I’d change it because one of the biggest reasons for making this instrument was to have something I didn’t need to fight.
John: Your Dean Markley “Balanced Bridge” signature strings are specifically designed for use with the Strat and the whammy bar. Do you use the same set for your other guitars, or do the gauges and other elements change due to scale length, pickups, etc.? How do the Dean Markleys differ from your previous Thomastik-Infeld signature strings?
Carl: For non-trem bridges, like Teles and hard tail Strats that I’m doing a lot of bending on, this gauge works great. I even have them on a few of my Gibsons, although a general rule for me is to use a standard .010 gauge set on the ES-335, Flying V and SG guitars. With Dean Markley and before that, Thomastik-Infeld, my goal was to create a string gauge that would make the floating bridge on a Strat have the same tensile feel of a .010 gauge set on a Gibson. With my set up you’re pulling against springs so the gauges need to adjust to feel similar. I also use my first finger a lot to bend the top two strings a whole step, so excessive tension is not what I’m after. I push strings around all day long, and it’s nice to keep a little skin on there in the end!
The Thomastik-Infeld strings are great; they’re just so hard to find in the USA. The Dean Markleys are a lot more available, you can get them anywhere. Their new Helix brand that I incorporated into my design has an advantage in that the windings are much close together. They call it a “hyper-elliptical wind” which apparently makes for a smoother string for sliding around as well as smaller “valleys” between windings so they trap less dirt and last longer.
John: You are one of a small number of guitarists who have both signature electric and acoustic models. You chose Avalon and designed an unusual double cutaway signature jumbo, the only signature model that Avalon builds. As you have owned a wide range of Guilds, Taylors, a Mark Angus, and other acoustics, how did the arrangement with Avalon come about, and do you ever play it at gigs, or only in the studio?
Carl: Avalon is in Northern Ireland and I met those guys while on tour in Belfast some years back. I asked them to make me a stage model that could be played in a loud, rock band and not feed back, and the double cutaway was suggested as a design concept to reduce that bass woof you get though the monitors. So it is the model I currently use on stage both in Europe and in the USA. Unfortunately Avalon has had some trouble in the past; the shrinking US dollar against the British Pound has not helped their sales. I wish them all the best
For studio work I have a number of vintage Gibsons and Martins, including a 1959 D-18 for dreadnaught duty. I have a 1938 Gibson L-00 for that Robert Johnson small body tone and a ’51 Gibson J-50 for that self-compressing strumming sound when I need to “pave” some rhythm acoustic in a track and double it. Tonight I’ll be using my Taylor 855-12-string on stage with Supertramp in Rouen, France. It’s a very reliable 12, and I run it through an acoustic guitar rig that includes a Raven pre-amp, a dbx 160-X rack mount compressor and a Lexicon reverb unit. The compressor evens out all the strumming and makes your finger picking sound better, too.
John: Education and information are obviously very important to you. Even though you log prodigious amounts of time both in the studio and on stage, you still cram plenty of workshop appearances, DVD instructional releases, and recently started writing a column for Guitar Player magazine. Where do you find the time, and what motivates you to be so open with your trade secrets, vs. a lot of other players who jealously guard their equipment and technique tricks of the trade?
Carl: I believe very strongly in passing it down to the next generation. Otherwise we’ll end up with a generation of “typers,” people who make music exclusively on their computers. There is a wonderful community of guitar players out there; I enjoy tapping into it when I’m traveling. My band played in Lithuania last year and we were invited to a Tuesday night meeting of all the guitar players in Vilnius, the capital city. My first reaction was: Vilnius has guitar players? But when I met these guys they knew all about me and we discussed normal stuff like how you separate the two parts in “Foxy Lady” and what kind of wah wah sounds best with distortion. Give it all away! That’s what Joe Diorio told me many years ago when I took some private lessons with him in the late 70’s. It all comes back to you in the end, so pass it on!
John: You are presently on tour with Supertramp in France, and you maintain a successful solo and session work career. In past interviews, you have likened studio work to being a craftsman and your solo work as your artistic outlet. In one interview, you created a theremin like sound for the Land of the Lost movie soundtrack - an example of the artistic creativity from you during a session.. What kind of significantly different artistic choices would you have made in examples of your more notable film, record or TV session work, if you had had the freedom to make the production decisions, and why?
Carl: Normally, film and TV work is a lot less creative than record work because you’re hired to read a composer’s score. You make creative sonic choices any time you can, as in guitar, amp and effects, but as for the musical choices, those are usually written out. But how you execute those notes is a subtle form of creativity in an otherwise legit situation. My goal in those orchestral dates, where the guitar has a melody or an important line, is to sound like I’ve been playing that part for 20 years. I get it under my hands with all the appropriate bends slides and articulation. Only then do I sound like I own it.
There is another aspect of creativity that comes with experience and confidence in the studio. Many composers are NOT guitarists and don’t know the instrument's limitations or, contrarily, its idiosyncrasies. So I often suggest ideas that will get the music across more naturally. I have no problem saying, “I can do what you wrote here, but if I change this and that it will work better. Here’s what a guitar player would do.” Nine times out of ten they like it better because it makes them sound better. In those situations you have to realize that you’re the expert in the room on all things guitar!
But to answer your question, film music is usually under dialog or secondary to the action on the screen, so I always trust the composer. It’s recording records where I have a much stronger musical opinion based on personal tastes. I remember playing a slide solo on an important record a few years back and working with the producer for about two hours to get it perfectly doubled, then harmonized. I was really proud of it and it truly rocked. The artist showed up, and in a very condescending English accent said, “That sounds like the bloody Saber Dance.” Nothing I could do about it, it just hit him the wrong way. And since my job was to see his musical vision to its ultimate perfection, I had to redo it with something a lot tamer.
John: In a 1996 issue ofGuitar Shop, you gave an in-depth photo tour of your gear at the time, and you described your A/B setup. Your clean rig then was a pair of Vox AC-30s, and you had some Marshall plexis for distortion. You also had a small recording rack that had a Mesa/Boogie preamp and a Lexicon LXP-1. Stompboxes of that era included a ProCo Rat, Ibanez TS-9, MXR DynaComp, Phase 90 and VooDoo Labs Proctavia and Tremolo. You now use a lot more Fender amps, plus the Dr. Z, although you’ve kept the Vox, and your new pedals include a Hermida Zendrive and a Fuchs. Are your new choices based upon “Holy Grail” type sounds that you were seeking, or did you retire some of the older units over reliability and wear & tear issues?
Carl: I’m proud to say I still own every piece of gear you just mentioned! My theory is: If it sounds good, don’t sell it. I own around 50 amps these days, stored in LA and a handful in Europe. I have at least 200 pedals on five pedal boards and in trunks of loose gear. It’s fun in the studio to hook different combinations of pedals, guitars and amps and experiment. I’ve changed things around since 1996 a few times, but for my artistic career the goal is always the same: It’s better to have 3 or 4 amazing tones than 99 mediocre ones. I long ago abandoned the “99 programmed presets rig” for the A/B system with awesome clean tones and a fat, saturated distortion sound for soloing. With Supertramp, I bump that up to a third signal path for power chords and distorted lines in unison with the bass. It’s nice to have a bone-dry power chord sound that’s different than your signature sound for the guitar solos. So that pedal board is an A/B/C system.
John: GGH is also interviewing Steve Trovato, a good friend of yours, with whom you have collaborated on a number of videos seen on YouTube. Do you have any other notable past duo collaborations of which you are fond of, (i.e, your 2009 CD, “Trading 8’s”) and are there any guitarists in particular with whom you would like to play and record with in the future? What do you look for in these kinds of collaborations, and do you plan complimentary gear choices in advance, or is it a more spontaneous kind of situation?
Carl: The guys on “Trading 8s” are all friends, so it was a pleasure to play with them. (Joe) Bonamassa and I played live in the studio, and it was take 4 all the way down that we used on the record. When we overdubbed Robben’s (Ford) solo I told him I played a Strat. He pulled out an ES-335 to compliment my tone, so I guess that was a spontaneous decision. The other guys on the album (Rick Vito, Albert Lee, Scott Henderson, Steve Morse) all played the signature instruments they’re known for. I’ve played with some pretty great players, like John Jorgenson, Greg Howe, Guthrie Govan, and Allan Holdsworth, who was on my first CD. I always learn something new from these situations, Steve Trovato included! He’s a wealth of information, a monster guitar player and a great hang.
John: In your new Guitar Playercolumn, you have cited having to come up with a last minute on the spot solo acoustic version of “Moon River” for The Academy Awards, and an orchestral recording session where you had to switch between (5) five different instruments in a single take. Apart from these two guitarists’ nightmare scenarios, what do you consider to be both your most unusual and most difficult session and gig demands so far?
Carl: Many years ago when I was first starting out in the studio, a composer named David McHugh called me for a session at the Universal Studios sound stage. It was a big orchestra date and he had a messenger deliver an exceptionally difficult part to me the day before so I could prepare it and be ready to be the principal soloist on it. After checking out the music, I wondered what the big deal was because it was simple. I learned it up-tempo, up the octave, in 3rds and 6ths and every way I could think of. But when I got to the studio it became obvious that they’d sent over the wrong piece! The terror that ensued when I attempted to sight-read the black page that was in front of me was something I’ll never forget. When 60 violin bows get into the ready position for their entrance in bar 21 and you blow bar 19 for the third time, it rattles you! Especially when they groan and grumble.
John: You have cited the importance of melodic lines in teaching about soloing, and you have mentioned that only about 30% of one’s playing, on average, is actual improvisation, with 70% being a collection of fallback licks and memorized parts. Les Paul’s criteria for individual playing was: “Fancy licks may be impressive to other musicians, but can your mother pick out your playing on the radio?” What Carl Verheyen recorded works contain playing examples that your mother would recognize as uniquely yours?
Carl: My Mom is a big fan and actually plays my stuff constantly in “heavy rotation” around her house and in the car. She even calls me when she’s recognized my sound or style on a TV show or a tune on the radio! But like all 79 year-olds, she tends to prefer the lyrical, pretty side of my music. Her favorites would be “Dusk” Parts 1 and 2 off the “Take One Step” CD and “Country Girl” from “Trading 8s”. My Dad is a fan too, and I have to thank both of my parents for their encouraging support throughout my life. Especially in the beginning when as a young man you’re trying to decide if you can make a go of this crazy business!
John: Although you currently use a wide range of Fenders, as well as Dr. Z, Vox, and in the past, Marshall and Mesa, you have steadfastly cited the Princeton Reverb as your baseline reference amp for all of your guitars, etc. What is it about the Princeton Reverb that prompted you to have so many of them, and why that amp vs., say, a Deluxe Reverb or AC15?
Carl: Somehow I ended up with 3 Blackface Princetons, I guess because I’ve never met one I didn’t like! I’m a huge fan of combo style amps with reverb, especially when playing alone, like practicing or solo guitar stuff. The Deluxe Reverb falls into that category, but the AC-15 has no ‘verb so I always need to hook up an old Fender tank or a reverb pedal, and that’s just one more thing in the signal path. The Princeton Reverb is simple and self-contained. But I have to admit I own a good example of all the other amps you mention here.
John: You are also going to be conducting a workshop this summer with Shadow Amps. Although you have plexis and vintage Fenders, are there new amp builders on your radar? What features are you looking for in a new amp?
Carl: The Shadow gives me that AC-30 sparkle and shimmering high end that I love to hear with a Stratocaster. Single coil pickups have such lovely highs and the Shadow delivers that plus a full mid range tone that really works for my clean tone. I use other amps for the distortion side of my rig, having years ago been asked by Allan Holdsworth, “How can you possibly use the same amps for your clean sound and your distortion sound?” I realized right then and there that an A/B amp rig was far better than Midi switching rack stuff, two channel amps or a clean / dirty rig using a pedal. My 4-amp live system evolved from that moment. Everything from pedals, effects, amps, speakers right down to the cables needed to be specific to the single tone I was after. I use certain cables for the distortion side of my rig and different ones for the clean.
John: Certainly, you have had plenty of gear pass through your hands over the years. What is your biggest sale or trade regret?
Carl: I borrowed a 1959 dot-neck ES-335 from my drummer’s brother back in ’68 /’69 when I was in a little band in Pasadena as a 15 year old. He offered to sell it to me for $300.00 and I said no thanks. That was an impossible amount of money for a kid, but what an investment it would have been!
John: Any items that you wish you never sold or traded, and wanted back in retrospect?
Carl: Alexander Dumble offered me one of his amps for next to nothing way back in 1989 and I bought a 1968 plexi 50 watt Marshall instead. I do love the old Marshall and I believe it sounds better with a Strat, but the Dumbles are out of control now, but I may get one yet!
John: Conversely, what is the best gear deal or find you ever made?
Carl: I got my ’61 Strat from a friend for $500.00. Hard to beat that one!
John: Is there any “big fish” that got away story?
Carl: Not too many! I actually still have most of the guitars I’ve ever owned!
John: Did you have any musical industry mentors or role models, as opposed to people whose music or guitar playing inspired you?
Carl: Tireless performers like McCartney and Joe Zawinul (until he passed away) are a big inspiration. I’ve learned a lot about musical integrity over the years from Rick Davies from Supertramp. He has such a high standard of excellence in his presentation of what he calls “the complete Supertramp experience.”
John: Whom would you say are your biggest musical or guitar influences in terms of your approaches towards recording, gigging, writing, and producing?
Carl: That list would be at least 25 or 30 players long if we had the space. So, narrowed down to a handful, it would be:
Recording: George Harrison, Jimmy Page, Jeff Tweedy
Gigging: Supertramp (the show must go on!)
Writing: Jimi Hendrix, Muddy Waters, Paul McCartney, Brian Wilson, Paul Simon, Elton John
Producing: Daniel Lanois, Todd Rundgren, Paul Fox, George Martin
John: Given that you are such a remarkably versatile guitar player, is there anyone of late whom you have heard or seen that made you stop and take notice because you couldn’t figure out how they were doing what they were doing, or came from such an unexpected musical perspective that their playing surprised you?
Carl: Years ago I gave up the technique of tapping, believing that it was dated and overused. But in the last few years I’ve played some shows with Guthrie Govan that have inspired me to re-examine the value of that technique as a musical tool to get intervals that don’t come easily on the guitar. Now if I could only find a way to maintain tone while tapping I’d be happy! Also, I’m always transcribing slide guitar licks to play without the slide, and people like Derek Trucks, Ry Cooder and Duane Allman are a constant source of inspiration for melodic and soulful lines.
John: Of all of the things that you have done in your career, what 3 recordings or accomplishments would you like to be best remembered for 50 years or more from now?
Carl: Tough question! I’m proud of keeping a band together for a few decades, employing musicians and crew and helping to generate work that feeds their families. As far as musical accomplishments, there’s an extended piece on the “Take One Step” CD called "Bells of April" that I’m really proud of. The new DVD called “The Road Divides” has a few high points like the jam at the end of "Slang Justice" and the title track. But I like to think I still have yet to produce the definitive Verheyen musical moment!
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